The Building Of the Imperial City: Diggin is DONE!

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Frostfeuer
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Frostfeuer » 10 Apr 2011, 14:13

Saladus wrote:I'm starting to think maybe black should have members demonstrate they know how to use TnT effectively and efficiently before it's given out. I know we said do whatever topside, but honestly, it's just going to create problems. Here's how it looks when it's done in an organized manner. It's clean, looks good, and most importantly, every block can be reached if you miss one.
http://imgur.com/C9XtO

This is what happens when we just go crazy and blow up stuff randomly. I take one look at this, as well as others, and I have no idea how to approach it to clear it. Walls are left hanging, blocks are in midair, and NO lighting is left behind. So... mobs are crawling all over it. This floor used to be completely flat and approachable.
http://i.imgur.com/Eyavg.jpg

Here's what it looks like from the bottom on a floor level. Notice no torches anywhere, making it a nightmare to work around with creepers up
http://imgur.com/Jncvv

This should be an absolute NO NO!!!! TnT lines are just no good...
http://i.imgur.com/nncRC.png

Here was the result last night of someone doing it. Tagmeh and I had to repair the floor. Picture the floor level here (with torches) not being there. Who's supposed to reach those blocks above? And how are we supposed to reach them when the floor is gone? Like I said, Tag and I had to put the floor back in place to make it possible to reach the upper blocks for future clearing
http://imgur.com/cGoqJ

I understand everyone's intent... everyone wants to clear IC out. Doing it in a completely random manner though is only going to delay the process. You can see how far back Infes has cleared in the first pic.

It boils down to- Organized clearing = every block can be reached, no creepers with proper lighting, IC is cleared out faster, vs random clearing = no one wants to clean up messy blocks, no one knows how to approach it, no lighting, creepers everywhere, IC is finished much later.
I am in complete agreement with you Sal. When I saw the giant craters with holes everywhere I couldn't even fathom how to fix it and decided just to do the sides where things are organized and not just a mess. Don't get me wrong, massive TNT explosions are fun to look at and all, but for something like this controlled explosions works far better then giant mounds of TNT ever would.

Even on the south side I had found areas where the floors were blown out with no replacement blocks placed. I did what I could with the small amount of cobble I had but it would have been far easier for people to just fix it as they are going along.

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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Infesord » 10 Apr 2011, 14:38

Frostfeuer wrote:
Saladus wrote: Snip
I am in complete agreement with you Sal. When I saw the giant craters with holes everywhere I couldn't even fathom how to fix it and decided just to do the sides where things are organized and not just a mess. Don't get me wrong, massive TNT explosions are fun to look at and all, but for something like this controlled explosions works far better then giant mounds of TNT ever would.

Even on the south side I had found areas where the floors were blown out with no replacement blocks placed. I did what I could with the small amount of cobble I had but it would have been far easier for people to just fix it as they are going along.
Not only that, Multiple TNT line explosions cause unnecessary Lag and Frame Rate issues for some people compared to controlled TNT done one by one separated by a few seconds from each other.

I am I'm glad to see many people have the good sense to see the issue that we have with this problem, and the nice solutions we have to make this whole process a lot less of a headache now and later down the road.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by sag185 » 11 Apr 2011, 08:21

I always do mine neatly, i dont damage floors and almost 100 percent get every block then i can mine any that i miss. ill edit a screenie in in a sec.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Saladus » 11 Apr 2011, 09:36

Infesord and I worked on a southern channel opposite to Mkindy's channel and made pretty good progress last night. The method of clearing from center out to the 250 block border seems to work very nicely, so I may just clear and extend channels from the center. Here's a quick diagram to show how I'm been clearing, this is when you're facing a wall-

3 Block-wide channel
XXX -Floor
XXX
XXX - TnT in bolded X (dug 4 deep, TnT placed 3 deep), repeat until you reach border
XXX

XXX
XXX - Once top level is cleared all the way back to the border, you can now clear this level until border
XXX
XXX - Floor
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So essentially if you're looking at the wall it'll progress like this-

XXX - Floor
-----
----- (Upper level cleared by TnT, keep walking on this level deeper and deeper)
-----
XXX
XXX
XXX
XXX - Floor

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then clear it out on the bottom-

XXX - Floor
-----
-----
-----
-----
----- (Bottom cleared, 6 blocks up and down cleared, floors left intact)
-----
XXX - Floor

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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Hytro » 12 Apr 2011, 03:14

Saladus wrote:XXX -Floor
XXX
XXX - TnT in bolded X (dug 4 deep, TnT placed 3 deep), repeat until you reach border
XXX

XXX
XXX - Once top level is cleared all the way back to the border, you can now clear this level until border
XXX
XXX - Floor
Yey, I have been doing the same in the eastern channel (came up withe same idea on my own ;) ) only bad thing is that I started out with 8 block wide, and that leaves me with 2 rows to clear out for hand . Good thing I only have 2 floors left to clear out before the channel is done.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Saladus » 13 Apr 2011, 10:26

Someone moved a mountain, literally a mountain in the Northeast corner. Granted, there was already a huge crater there, but still, kudos for clearing that... it was a huge amount. However, at the same time please don't destroy chests in the process :( Mine were out in the open on a platform, and contained all my remaining TnT, about a stack of iron, maybe 20 gold ore, and 3 full chests of cobble. That platform could have easily been left alone until I moved it.

Edit - And after asking in game, I was told chests can't be destroyed if protected.... so..... how were mine destroyed?

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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by The Bum » 13 Apr 2011, 14:44

Saladus wrote:Someone moved a mountain, literally a mountain in the Northeast corner. Granted, there was already a huge crater there, but still, kudos for clearing that... it was a huge amount. However, at the same time please don't destroy chests in the process :( Mine were out in the open on a platform, and contained all my remaining TnT, about a stack of iron, maybe 20 gold ore, and 3 full chests of cobble. That platform could have easily been left alone until I moved it.

Edit - And after asking in game, I was told chests can't be destroyed if protected.... so..... how were mine destroyed?
World edit, methinks.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by aflycon » 13 Apr 2011, 19:29

...we plan on doing this all by hand. This means no cheating from cubiod or any other mod tools.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Blackadder51 » 13 Apr 2011, 19:43

Yes thank you for that.

Lath was fixing a major problem with some tnt holes that made the landscape unworkable, however he must have forgetten to refill the mountin. All this was and shall be was a simple error. I stand by my promise that the digging shall remain natural.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Zinrius » 13 Apr 2011, 19:48

Blackadder51 wrote:Yes thank you for that.

Lath was fixing a major problem with some tnt holes that made the landscape unworkable, however he must have forgetten to refill the mountin. All this was and shall be was a simple error. I stand by my promise that the digging shall remain natural.
Speaking of which, I haven't seen you fire your "love cannon" 8-)
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Saladus » 13 Apr 2011, 23:27

Blackadder51 wrote:Yes thank you for that.

Lath was fixing a major problem with some tnt holes that made the landscape unworkable, however he must have forgetten to refill the mountin. All this was and shall be was a simple error. I stand by my promise that the digging shall remain natural.
There's a few more areas around IC that are unworkable.... probably about the other remaining 80% of IC. I'd like to request a ...."fix" for them as well ;D

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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Infesord » 14 Apr 2011, 00:25

Blackadder51 wrote:Yes thank you for that.

Lath was fixing a major problem with some tnt holes that made the landscape unworkable, however he must have forgetten to refill the mountin. All this was and shall be was a simple error. I stand by my promise that the digging shall remain natural.

What? Unworkable terrain? PSSSH whatever. I can handle anything, just takes some time, some skill and extra cobblestone sitting around. I just hope it gets reverted back soon, cause I felt like all the effort me and Yaedien have been doing on the West/Southwest area was overshadowed by that huge crater in the NE. At least now it make sense why it was removed in the span of like no time at all.

BTW, its totally look pretty good though so far. I hope Lionheart can begin construction soon as he is the man in charge of designing the buildings.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by The Bum » 14 Apr 2011, 14:51

Infesord wrote: I hope Lionheart can begin construction soon as he is the man in charge of designing the buildings.

As soon? That's always been his thing, the city was his idea, after all.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by vallorn » 14 Apr 2011, 16:27

Infesord wrote:
Blackadder51 wrote:Yes thank you for that.

Lath was fixing a major problem with some tnt holes that made the landscape unworkable, however he must have forgetten to refill the mountin. All this was and shall be was a simple error. I stand by my promise that the digging shall remain natural.

What? Unworkable terrain? PSSSH whatever. I can handle anything, just takes some time, some skill and extra cobblestone sitting around. I just hope it gets reverted back soon, cause I felt like all the effort me and Yaedien have been doing on the West/Southwest area was overshadowed by that huge crater in the NE. At least now it make sense why it was removed in the span of like no time at all.

BTW, its totally look pretty good though so far. I hope Lionheart can begin construction soon as he is the man in charge of designing the buildings.
i think the giant crater in West is about to grow a bit bigger ;)
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Infesord » 14 Apr 2011, 16:35

Just thought I'd let you all know. If you decide to be crazy and dig on levels 1 and 2, there are apparantly instances of Invisble, Unreloadable, Untouchable, stupid bullcrap Slimes in those areas. If you walk around and then are hit by something you can't see, just stay the heck away from it, Then place Cobblestone around the area as to block it off from others hitting it. Typically a Server Restart will force them to show and be animated, or make em disappear. But until a Restart happens, just do the cobblestone prison as to protect yourself and others.

So if your in IC and see little boxes around (especially on the railway, they seem to like eating Minecart users). Just leave em alone, or if you want to be brave and check, open em up and see if one is inside. If there is, KILL IT.

If not? walk into the space and see if you get hit. If you do it's still there and should be locked up again. If nothing happens, break the prison and assume the System took care of it (assume it starved to death, which is fine as they are TREPASSING as it is). :D

Edit: I have also seemed to stumble upon a weird bug, when trying to kill any of these mysterious Slimes that reappear after a restart (or whatever brings em back), when fighting them you will get the "PVP is disabled in this Server" message. As if to think the slimes were people, lawl.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by vallorn » 14 Apr 2011, 16:40

actualy if you see the boxes hit F3 to check for slimes in there before you break it open. much safer.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Eddietester1066 » 14 Apr 2011, 21:44

While I haven't run into any invisible slimes (yet), I have seen a couple of creepers that look like they are bouncing between my level (first tier above the bottom) and the one above. Weird but susceptible to ranged arrows...
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Which leads to this:
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by vallorn » 15 Apr 2011, 05:21

Chuckp wrote:While I haven't run into any invisible slimes (yet), I have seen a couple of creepers that look like they are bouncing between my level (first tier above the bottom) and the one above. Weird but susceptible to ranged arrows...
yes sometimes Slimes rable to Swords but not Arrows... however Arrows Split em.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by marurder » 15 Apr 2011, 05:48

F3 doesn't reveal invisible slimes.

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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by vallorn » 15 Apr 2011, 06:00

marurder wrote:F3 doesn't reveal invisible slimes.
exactly. if the box is there and F3 doesnt show anything LEAVE IT ALONE!
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Infesord » 18 Apr 2011, 06:21

Infesord here, it has been some times since a post so I'd thought I'd share my thoughts on how the Imperial City Construction Digging/Excavating/Demolition is going.

Currently I believe I have figured out the final version and way that I do excavating to be nearly flawless. Right now its late and can't post pics or anything but if you want an idea of what it looks like, just head to the Northwest area on the third level to see. Its pretty bright as I use a LARGE amount of torches in a simple pattern. I do this for 2 reasons. One is so that the area is FOR SURE bright enough to prevent mobs from spawning, Two is so I can measure the area for exact TNT demolition.

On that note, the Northwest third level IS NOT to be touched by anyone but me at this point. There are a few signs around that should detract people from touching it. It shouldn't be long till I have it all done, but if people randomly dig and blow sections out without my knowledge of how I do things Its gonna be much harder to do without any headaches. I try and instruct people on how to do it in game... things look fine at first but I come back the next day after I leave and the place is a mess anyway.

Maybe I'm just a perfectionist and should lighten up a bit on the whole thing. But this whole project can be SO EASY if we stick to a system that works. Thats what I have been trying to do up until this point. I should probably get around and record Video on how to do it properly and REQUIRE everyone to watch the video on what to do so there's no bullcrap or messes everywhere.

Anyway, I think everyone should concentrate on level 3 only until the whole level is all done. I hope that after Level 3 is done, The Slime Suppression Plugin will be back in working order so we can do Levels 1 and 2 in that order. As it currently stands levels 1 and 2 is just too dangerous with all the invisible slimes everywhere capable of killing everyone, and THIS IS COMING FROM A GUY WHO WEARS IRON ARMOR 24/7 AND HAS THE /HOME COMMAND AT THE PROJECT.

With levels 1 through 3 gone, Lionheart and other actual construction workers can start building the groundwork for the Imperial City. I figure levels 1 through 3 is all they need work without anything getting in their way. Levels 4 and up is simply just ugly looking and has to go at the end whilst they work.

TL;DR Version: Dig at level 3 only, Don't dig/explode stupidly, don't touch the Northwest corner level 3, wait till slimes go away to do levels 1 and 2, Lionheart is awesome, and Banana Cream Pie is very tasty. :D
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by vallorn » 18 Apr 2011, 07:29

Addendum:
leave the Far West alone till ive finished clearing the LeafPocalypse zone there. shouldnt be much longer now.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Saladus » 18 Apr 2011, 10:36

Just curious Infesord, anything change from how we currently clear a floor in two layers? Saw the area btw, awesome amount cleared :)

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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Infesord » 18 Apr 2011, 17:37

Saladus wrote:Just curious Infesord, anything change from how we currently clear a floor in two layers? Saw the area btw, awesome amount cleared :)
Pretty much just clear it as before, but now I've added in the new torch lighting system, and usually I do 10 segments at a time, doing the top, then the bottom. Then moving over to the next 10 rows doing the top, and then the bottom and repeat until done. But only do this until you have carved out the edges so you know when to stop digging. As well making sure to keep the floor and roof intact as much as possible. Sometimes I miss a few on the roof, but that only really means that when we do the 4th layer that some parts of the floor will be removed and have to be replaced. Of course that happens anyway whenever weak blocks like dirt and gravel ever get in the way.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Infesord » 19 Apr 2011, 05:25

Update: Northwest Corner, 3rd Level, 100% Cleared!
2011-04-19_04.26.42.png
I also have 18 boxes of cobblestone I need reimbursing :| :) :D

Also I need to collapse from exhaustion.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Saladus » 19 Apr 2011, 10:10

A good thing about the channels that we've dug out in all four directions is that we can easily tell when a corner is done. So that's officially 1/4 of the 3rd floor cleared out! Awesome work Infesord! I'll be working on the South East corner of the 3rd floor when I can.

Also, how do you think we should handle the floors? Should we demolish them as soon as they are 100% clear so no one gets distracted / wastes time on a floor that needs no more work?

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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Infesord » 19 Apr 2011, 17:39

Saladus wrote:A good thing about the channels that we've dug out in all four directions is that we can easily tell when a corner is done. So that's officially 1/4 of the 3rd floor cleared out! Awesome work Infesord! I'll be working on the South East corner of the 3rd floor when I can.

Also, how do you think we should handle the floors? Should we demolish them as soon as they are 100% clear so no one gets distracted / wastes time on a floor that needs no more work?
That I am not sure of Saladus. That actually might be a good idea considering we won't need to worry about it when we do Floor 2. The only problem of course is when we do floor 4 that there won't be a "saftey net" to catch you if you fall through, but I'm aware thats a problem almost anywhere in IC. But for now I don't think I want to remove the floor quite yet. I certainly can't remove ALL of it because some people stuff including my own is on that floor.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Infesord » 22 Apr 2011, 03:45

Update: Southwest Corner, 3rd Level: 100% Cleared!
2011-04-22_02.44.59.png
This I suppose technically now that the Third level is Half-Way done, chances are even more so as I'll be helping Saladus on his Southeast Corner next, and the Northeast Corner is mostly all rock from world edit mumbo jumbo I heard about. At this rate I wonder if the slime suppression plugin will be fixed by the time we finish Level 3... only time will tell.
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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Saladus » 22 Apr 2011, 08:30

Sure thing, if you help on Southeast corner, start toward the southern side. You'll see I've been working a 12 block wide (I believe it's 12) tunnel toward the Eastern border. Once that's done we can just TnT our way toward the North.

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Re: The Building Of the Imperial City: Now with moar minecar

Post by Frostfeuer » 23 Apr 2011, 21:22

Alright i've been helping out in the southeast corner of the third floor when I have the time since i'm in the middle of exam time. Considering there is a small number of dedicated miners IC has still progressed a MASSIVE amount in the past 2 weeks, and I have to give credit to infesord, saladus, Izz and whoever else have been working hard at this. I will continue to do as much as I can with the time I have to play, and hopefully before May we can have the entire third level and possibly a good chunk of the second done.

Hopefully slimes will be removed before we finish the third floor, but if that doesn't happen we'll have to carry swords and food as we work on the second and first floors.

Continuing on what Infesord said earlier construction on IC has been stalled after white gold tower for several months. If we can even just clear a sizable component from levels 1-3 construction can continue and won't be stalled.

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